You sure hit the nail on the head. I actually ruined a dinner party last month by mentioning how good The Witch Trials of JK Rowling were. None of the women had listened to the podcast but said they wouldn't listen to or read anything that Bari has a hand in, even though it was done by Megan Phelps-Roper who they assumed was just as evil. Bari's very existence elicits viceral reactions from people (mostly women) who use no logic or facts. It makes zero sense to me, she's talented and admirable and works hard and the one time I met her she was lovely. It is probably just jealousy and progressive left group think.
Seriously, the fact that Bari Weiss would let not one, BUT FOUR women speak their minds in a public setting — without their husbands — is an affront to humanity. *shakes head in disapproval*
People talk so much shit about Bari Weiss and I don't understand it. When I listen to her interview guests on her Honestly podcast I'm always so enamored with her knowledge and the research she's done and the way she conducts her interviews, which to me seem very fair and balanced. She's certainly not the right-wing maniac she's portrayed as.
Meghan, yet her supporters at TFP, who comment most often, are men! To clarify a bit, most everyone there is just Left or Right of Center. We were ALL searching for a platform where we were FREE to discuss, sometimes cuss, and agree to disagree without fear of retribution, slander or cancellation! Bari’s Common Sense/The Free Press has been a Godsend. It gives us hope the pendulum may be swinging back to center!
Your piece is exhilarating, lucid and eloquent. It made me share your anger. Great job. And thanks for giving me a little bit of flavor about the event.
Excellent commentary. You have elicited a couple of thoughts:
-The mainstream media still has value, primarily for telling us the basic facts of major stories. As much as I love you, and Sarah, and say, Jesse Singal and Freddie deBoer, I'm not waiting for any of you to tell me how 11,000 people died in Libya. I will rely on CNN for that function.
Perfect recent example: by now the whole country has heard about the manhunt for the escaped convict in Pennsylvania. He was caught 15 minutes (via car) from my house. The entire two weeks I relied heavily on the "mainstream media" for details, including road closures. Maybe a month from now Taibbi or Greenwald can give us a meta-analysis on the implications for criminal justice reform and immigration law. But that's not what I needed when I needed to know if I could get to the grocery store.
-As for Bari Weiss, I think the Derangement Syndrome is pretty easy to explain: the social justice hates nothing more than a traitor. Look at her personal demographic - Ivy League, Jewish, New York Times millennial who is openly in a same-sex marriage. By virtue of these traits, she is supposed to have certain political/social views, yet she betrays her tribe.
I can only imagine the consternation she caused in the halls of the NYT. Contrast her with those middle-aged straight white males like Bret Stephens or David Brooks - those guys are the known enemy and can easily be dismissed as such. Stephens or Brooks takes a "conservative" stance on an issue? He elicits a shoulder shrug because he is only doing what the Left expects from him. Weiss takes the exact same stance on the exact same issue? She elicits gnashing of teeth and rending of garments because she is a traitor to the cause. (I would also note that the social justice Left has more vitriol for Weiss than the peroxided, flyover "bimbos" from Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, as they are also clearly the enemy).
Aside from all that, I shared your disdain for the two "reviews" of the Free Press event. They appear to have been written by snarky college freshman auditioning for some edgy alt-weekly. (Is the alt-weekly still a thing?
Respectfully, Tyler, those “peroxided, flyover “bimbos” from Fox News, Newsmax, OAN” … You had me in total agreement UNTIL that statement. Hence, you sound exactly like those “social justice warriors” who believe EVERYONE is to be ridiculed, slandered and cancelled, if they aren’t in lockstep with their WOKE Left narrative. Or, in your case, if they don’t fit the accepted description of having “pink hair, face tattoos & nose rings” from MSNBC, CBS or CNN.
Tyler, do you see how YOU came across? Please, sir, do better!
The very reason Bari & TFP is so successful, and continues to grow her platform, is because she welcomes ALL people. Only requirement for commenters is be respectful, no “derogatory labeling” and use good manners & common sense. How healing, in this day & age of so much “infectious Derangement Syndromes”
Your defense (and rightly so to the extent of your point) also reveals a deeper problem with mainstream media: you are forced to rely on them for certain facts. So it become harder to identify when these sources produce commentary devoid of them.
"As for Bari Weiss, I think the Derangement Syndrome is pretty easy to explain: the social justice hates nothing more than a traitor. Look at her personal demographic - Ivy League, Jewish, New York Times millennial who is openly in a same-sex marriage. By virtue of these traits, she is supposed to have certain political/social views, yet she betrays her tribe.
I can only imagine the consternation she caused in the halls of the NYT. Contrast her with those middle-aged straight white males like Bret Stephens or David Brooks - those guys are the known enemy and can easily be dismissed as such. Stephens or Brooks takes a "conservative" stance on an issue? He elicits a shoulder shrug because he is only doing what the Left expects from him."
Yes, very much agreed. It's the same reason that the, for a lack of a better word, liberal anti-woke get so angry about the woke: these people are supposed to be liberal, supposed to value free expression and diversity of not merely identity but ideas, and their betrayal of those basic values that (we think) they "should" hold fill us with rage. That conservatives don't seem to hold those values in high regard? Not that surprising.
It *is* gauling that so much of that elite media sanctimony is so obviously identity-based.
While I did not attend the event, I cannot believe the weird article (read by Moynihan, Sarah, and Nancy on their podcast) that was published in the NY Times (that you reference). The further degradation of news/journalism to ideology camps. I can't stand it! Nor can I understand how people keep going with it. Bari Weiss derangement syndrome is real. I think she is one of the best interviewers I have ever come across and a journalist, thought leader, creator I can respect. Thank the good lord for all of you intelligent, nuanced, reasonable, non-deranged, opinionated, "problematic" journalists! Thank you for doing what you do!
Possibly my favorite Meghan Daum is deeply pissed off Meghan Daum.
I'm extremely grateful to Bari Weiss for opening my eyes to how nuts everyone was becoming, by being the only person on TV talking sense about that awful Aziz Ansari hit job that nuked a TV show I loved (so rare for me). I began to pay attention to anything she was doing, and now I'm so grateful to her for creating The Free Press. I'm convinced she's despised because she's smart, successful, and refuses both to be cowed, and--this is the UNFORGIVABLE part--unreasonable or uncivil, ever. She appears to be terminally unprovoked. MADDENING. UNACCEPTABLE.
Thank you for the bit of mellowing outrage this morning, Meghan. You do it very well. Cheers.
Whenever I see examples of people tear down other people like Bari Weiss, or any number of others who are actually doing and creating something new, I think of the Kierkegaard idea about leveling. Unfortunately I can’t remember the details of the idea because, you know, it’s Kierkegaard.
I just singed the tip of my finger after holding it to this Substack entry on my phone. Smoking! This is an excellent piece that steered clear of remarking on females cutting females to the quick oddly in relation to empowerment. Will we ever break that cycle? What Bari has created and helped put out into the world in so short a time is nothing short of impressive. And every person working in media knows it, even if they don’t agree with her positions. (And the TM on Mainstream Media is a nice touch!)
I think the core of Bari Weiss Derangement Syndrome is rage over her influence and financial success. Not only had she achieved financial independence (and even wealth) through the platform she started, she turned her back on a sweet gig at the NYT. Ninety-nine percent of journalists would not be willing to turn away from that type of prestige and they know it. As far as I can tell, many journalists have deep anger that other people make more money and great shame that they haven’t figured out how to do it themselves. So Bari is basically an apostate to them because she has stepped out of the confines of their system with more balls than they could ever muster.
You're not the first commenter to mention professional jealousy..
But Weiss' NYT resignation letter suggests that the vitriol well predated her departure and subsequent projects. So there must be something else going on in addition to jealousy.
Except, Michael, the NYT “drove Bari out” and for her to “try” and stay went against everything she stood for! When the WOKE Left “eat their own” it’s much uglier than when they go after someone on the Right. Ask Matt Taibbi, Michael Shellenberger, Elon Musk, even Trump! They were ALL “Darlings of the Democrats” until they reported the truth, stood up, spoke out, or dared run against Hillary (she & Bill were best buds with the Trumps before!)!
More & more people are being pushed to the Center! Lifelong Democrat supporters are saying, “I didn’t leave my Party! It left me!”
We all know who the Extreme Right crazies are. Now we’re learning the dangers of the WOKE Left crazies! And the MSM, NYT (others) are simply the propaganda arm serving them!
Earlier today I read both the LA Times and New York Magazine piece, and like you, Meghan, was floored and outraged by the obvious disdain both writers had for the debate. Though I wasn’t in attendance as you were, I was certain that their snarky commentaries did not reflect what had actually taken place. Bari was the trigger and somehow the permission to dismiss the entire event. Very disturbing. Thank you for writing this. It’s more important than ever that we continue to call out such knee jerk reactions
Roselee, I totally agree, except she is calling out more than just their “knee jerk” reaction. They wrote “hit pieces” to try, once again, to slander their enemies!
IF you aren’t in lockstep with the WOKE Left, and dare to go against their narrative, then you must be cancelled! Except, Bari is way out in front of them!
This was at a backyard dinner party, St Paul, probably around 2022. Within minutes of my mentioning Bari and after a couple of beers, a middle aged professor, generally charming and European mannered, shouted "Fuck Bari Weiss!"
It’s almost as if the MSM walked into this event with preconceived notions of the players and how it would play out and then proceeded to report on it based on how it fit their existing narratives. Shocking-not-shocking, alas.
I love you, Meghan. I share your fascination with exploring ideas, and it is so befuddling when people would rather bury their heads in the sand than work together to form a greater understanding.
Why not have Louise on the pod? You three could discuss the concept together, and Sarah could deploy all those arguments she spent so long working on.
That LA Times piece was embarrassing. You're right that there is such a lack of intellectual curiosity in the places where it matters most. People just are not interested in exploring the depths of ideas. I know a lot of people with very strong ideas about BLM, trans rights, critical theory, etc, yet when you start trying to talk to them about those ideas and their ramifications when taken to their ultimate conclusions, they are just not interested. I feel like we are outliers in that we (I'm talking about OUR community here) are interested in what is true, and will follow the expertise and the logic and scientific rationalism to where the truth seems to lie. These other people are not interested in truth at all. They don't care what the truth is. Many of them don't even believe there is a such thing as truth. It's a game to them, a sporting event, the goal being to score points rather than arrive at something true. The fact that so many people feel so passionate about ideas that they know nothing about is astounding. It was great seeing who showed up there and the electricity in the air. And it WAS the first Free Press event so I'm sure there were aspects that in the future will be smoothed out, but it was refreshing to see so many people come out for it.
You sure hit the nail on the head. I actually ruined a dinner party last month by mentioning how good The Witch Trials of JK Rowling were. None of the women had listened to the podcast but said they wouldn't listen to or read anything that Bari has a hand in, even though it was done by Megan Phelps-Roper who they assumed was just as evil. Bari's very existence elicits viceral reactions from people (mostly women) who use no logic or facts. It makes zero sense to me, she's talented and admirable and works hard and the one time I met her she was lovely. It is probably just jealousy and progressive left group think.
Seriously, the fact that Bari Weiss would let not one, BUT FOUR women speak their minds in a public setting — without their husbands — is an affront to humanity. *shakes head in disapproval*
People talk so much shit about Bari Weiss and I don't understand it. When I listen to her interview guests on her Honestly podcast I'm always so enamored with her knowledge and the research she's done and the way she conducts her interviews, which to me seem very fair and balanced. She's certainly not the right-wing maniac she's portrayed as.
I mean, I think there's a certain subset of people who if someone is a half-step to the right of Trotsky, they're "alt-right."
Men hate her, too, in my experience.
Meghan, yet her supporters at TFP, who comment most often, are men! To clarify a bit, most everyone there is just Left or Right of Center. We were ALL searching for a platform where we were FREE to discuss, sometimes cuss, and agree to disagree without fear of retribution, slander or cancellation! Bari’s Common Sense/The Free Press has been a Godsend. It gives us hope the pendulum may be swinging back to center!
You’re right. I was thinking more that I don’t personally know a man who dislikes her but have seen lots of men on line who despise her.
Your piece is exhilarating, lucid and eloquent. It made me share your anger. Great job. And thanks for giving me a little bit of flavor about the event.
And, also, I want to put itin the comments of the two articles. Is that an ok thing to do?
Sure!
Excellent commentary. You have elicited a couple of thoughts:
-The mainstream media still has value, primarily for telling us the basic facts of major stories. As much as I love you, and Sarah, and say, Jesse Singal and Freddie deBoer, I'm not waiting for any of you to tell me how 11,000 people died in Libya. I will rely on CNN for that function.
Perfect recent example: by now the whole country has heard about the manhunt for the escaped convict in Pennsylvania. He was caught 15 minutes (via car) from my house. The entire two weeks I relied heavily on the "mainstream media" for details, including road closures. Maybe a month from now Taibbi or Greenwald can give us a meta-analysis on the implications for criminal justice reform and immigration law. But that's not what I needed when I needed to know if I could get to the grocery store.
-As for Bari Weiss, I think the Derangement Syndrome is pretty easy to explain: the social justice hates nothing more than a traitor. Look at her personal demographic - Ivy League, Jewish, New York Times millennial who is openly in a same-sex marriage. By virtue of these traits, she is supposed to have certain political/social views, yet she betrays her tribe.
I can only imagine the consternation she caused in the halls of the NYT. Contrast her with those middle-aged straight white males like Bret Stephens or David Brooks - those guys are the known enemy and can easily be dismissed as such. Stephens or Brooks takes a "conservative" stance on an issue? He elicits a shoulder shrug because he is only doing what the Left expects from him. Weiss takes the exact same stance on the exact same issue? She elicits gnashing of teeth and rending of garments because she is a traitor to the cause. (I would also note that the social justice Left has more vitriol for Weiss than the peroxided, flyover "bimbos" from Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, as they are also clearly the enemy).
Aside from all that, I shared your disdain for the two "reviews" of the Free Press event. They appear to have been written by snarky college freshman auditioning for some edgy alt-weekly. (Is the alt-weekly still a thing?
Respectfully, Tyler, those “peroxided, flyover “bimbos” from Fox News, Newsmax, OAN” … You had me in total agreement UNTIL that statement. Hence, you sound exactly like those “social justice warriors” who believe EVERYONE is to be ridiculed, slandered and cancelled, if they aren’t in lockstep with their WOKE Left narrative. Or, in your case, if they don’t fit the accepted description of having “pink hair, face tattoos & nose rings” from MSNBC, CBS or CNN.
Tyler, do you see how YOU came across? Please, sir, do better!
The very reason Bari & TFP is so successful, and continues to grow her platform, is because she welcomes ALL people. Only requirement for commenters is be respectful, no “derogatory labeling” and use good manners & common sense. How healing, in this day & age of so much “infectious Derangement Syndromes”
Your defense (and rightly so to the extent of your point) also reveals a deeper problem with mainstream media: you are forced to rely on them for certain facts. So it become harder to identify when these sources produce commentary devoid of them.
"As for Bari Weiss, I think the Derangement Syndrome is pretty easy to explain: the social justice hates nothing more than a traitor. Look at her personal demographic - Ivy League, Jewish, New York Times millennial who is openly in a same-sex marriage. By virtue of these traits, she is supposed to have certain political/social views, yet she betrays her tribe.
I can only imagine the consternation she caused in the halls of the NYT. Contrast her with those middle-aged straight white males like Bret Stephens or David Brooks - those guys are the known enemy and can easily be dismissed as such. Stephens or Brooks takes a "conservative" stance on an issue? He elicits a shoulder shrug because he is only doing what the Left expects from him."
Yes, very much agreed. It's the same reason that the, for a lack of a better word, liberal anti-woke get so angry about the woke: these people are supposed to be liberal, supposed to value free expression and diversity of not merely identity but ideas, and their betrayal of those basic values that (we think) they "should" hold fill us with rage. That conservatives don't seem to hold those values in high regard? Not that surprising.
It *is* gauling that so much of that elite media sanctimony is so obviously identity-based.
Good breakdown Tyler!
While I did not attend the event, I cannot believe the weird article (read by Moynihan, Sarah, and Nancy on their podcast) that was published in the NY Times (that you reference). The further degradation of news/journalism to ideology camps. I can't stand it! Nor can I understand how people keep going with it. Bari Weiss derangement syndrome is real. I think she is one of the best interviewers I have ever come across and a journalist, thought leader, creator I can respect. Thank the good lord for all of you intelligent, nuanced, reasonable, non-deranged, opinionated, "problematic" journalists! Thank you for doing what you do!
It was a New York magazine article
I stand corrected!
SunnyBee, I agree! Thx
Possibly my favorite Meghan Daum is deeply pissed off Meghan Daum.
I'm extremely grateful to Bari Weiss for opening my eyes to how nuts everyone was becoming, by being the only person on TV talking sense about that awful Aziz Ansari hit job that nuked a TV show I loved (so rare for me). I began to pay attention to anything she was doing, and now I'm so grateful to her for creating The Free Press. I'm convinced she's despised because she's smart, successful, and refuses both to be cowed, and--this is the UNFORGIVABLE part--unreasonable or uncivil, ever. She appears to be terminally unprovoked. MADDENING. UNACCEPTABLE.
Thank you for the bit of mellowing outrage this morning, Meghan. You do it very well. Cheers.
“Bari Weiss Antidefamation Syndrome” 😂 you are brilliant, Meghan Daum! ❤️ thank you.
She is truly brilliant and inspiring. Wow. At this time in my life, this piece is perfection.
Whenever I see examples of people tear down other people like Bari Weiss, or any number of others who are actually doing and creating something new, I think of the Kierkegaard idea about leveling. Unfortunately I can’t remember the details of the idea because, you know, it’s Kierkegaard.
I just singed the tip of my finger after holding it to this Substack entry on my phone. Smoking! This is an excellent piece that steered clear of remarking on females cutting females to the quick oddly in relation to empowerment. Will we ever break that cycle? What Bari has created and helped put out into the world in so short a time is nothing short of impressive. And every person working in media knows it, even if they don’t agree with her positions. (And the TM on Mainstream Media is a nice touch!)
I think the core of Bari Weiss Derangement Syndrome is rage over her influence and financial success. Not only had she achieved financial independence (and even wealth) through the platform she started, she turned her back on a sweet gig at the NYT. Ninety-nine percent of journalists would not be willing to turn away from that type of prestige and they know it. As far as I can tell, many journalists have deep anger that other people make more money and great shame that they haven’t figured out how to do it themselves. So Bari is basically an apostate to them because she has stepped out of the confines of their system with more balls than they could ever muster.
You're not the first commenter to mention professional jealousy..
But Weiss' NYT resignation letter suggests that the vitriol well predated her departure and subsequent projects. So there must be something else going on in addition to jealousy.
It's partially her stance on Israel and the BDS activists. She didn't agree with the progressive line.
Except, Michael, the NYT “drove Bari out” and for her to “try” and stay went against everything she stood for! When the WOKE Left “eat their own” it’s much uglier than when they go after someone on the Right. Ask Matt Taibbi, Michael Shellenberger, Elon Musk, even Trump! They were ALL “Darlings of the Democrats” until they reported the truth, stood up, spoke out, or dared run against Hillary (she & Bill were best buds with the Trumps before!)!
More & more people are being pushed to the Center! Lifelong Democrat supporters are saying, “I didn’t leave my Party! It left me!”
We all know who the Extreme Right crazies are. Now we’re learning the dangers of the WOKE Left crazies! And the MSM, NYT (others) are simply the propaganda arm serving them!
Earlier today I read both the LA Times and New York Magazine piece, and like you, Meghan, was floored and outraged by the obvious disdain both writers had for the debate. Though I wasn’t in attendance as you were, I was certain that their snarky commentaries did not reflect what had actually taken place. Bari was the trigger and somehow the permission to dismiss the entire event. Very disturbing. Thank you for writing this. It’s more important than ever that we continue to call out such knee jerk reactions
Roselee, I totally agree, except she is calling out more than just their “knee jerk” reaction. They wrote “hit pieces” to try, once again, to slander their enemies!
IF you aren’t in lockstep with the WOKE Left, and dare to go against their narrative, then you must be cancelled! Except, Bari is way out in front of them!
This was at a backyard dinner party, St Paul, probably around 2022. Within minutes of my mentioning Bari and after a couple of beers, a middle aged professor, generally charming and European mannered, shouted "Fuck Bari Weiss!"
It’s almost as if the MSM walked into this event with preconceived notions of the players and how it would play out and then proceeded to report on it based on how it fit their existing narratives. Shocking-not-shocking, alas.
EmBee, you hit the nail on the head!
All I can say is I’m grateful Bari Weiss exists. You too, Meghan. Keep doing what you are doing. 😊
I love you, Meghan. I share your fascination with exploring ideas, and it is so befuddling when people would rather bury their heads in the sand than work together to form a greater understanding.
Why not have Louise on the pod? You three could discuss the concept together, and Sarah could deploy all those arguments she spent so long working on.
Louise has been on The Unspeakable Pod. And Sarah has been on Louise's podcast.
Thanks Meghan for critique-ing the critics! Also thanks for linking to the definition of e-girls. I almost came here to ask what that means.
That LA Times piece was embarrassing. You're right that there is such a lack of intellectual curiosity in the places where it matters most. People just are not interested in exploring the depths of ideas. I know a lot of people with very strong ideas about BLM, trans rights, critical theory, etc, yet when you start trying to talk to them about those ideas and their ramifications when taken to their ultimate conclusions, they are just not interested. I feel like we are outliers in that we (I'm talking about OUR community here) are interested in what is true, and will follow the expertise and the logic and scientific rationalism to where the truth seems to lie. These other people are not interested in truth at all. They don't care what the truth is. Many of them don't even believe there is a such thing as truth. It's a game to them, a sporting event, the goal being to score points rather than arrive at something true. The fact that so many people feel so passionate about ideas that they know nothing about is astounding. It was great seeing who showed up there and the electricity in the air. And it WAS the first Free Press event so I'm sure there were aspects that in the future will be smoothed out, but it was refreshing to see so many people come out for it.