Women may be doing better, but are kids better off? Women may no longer need men to provide for them, but what about the value of fathers and two parent families? Many younger people are in crisis, and society isn't exactly running fantastically on all cylinders right now. We need to value the better qualities of both men and women. Men can and should contribute more than just $ earnings to the equation.
Great discussion! A few months ago (before this book came out) I lobbied for a book group to read “The War Against Men” (?) by Christina Hoff Sommers. The group just hated it because it didn’t toe the line of patriarchy, privilege, power. Folks just argued against it for the whole time. This book sounds better and I wish it well! We need this discussion.
Wow. How refreshing to hear this! I feel ‘heard’ lol. No but really. The bit about women needing to have more compassion and empathy is so true. I’ve felt this for many years now. There’s a general sense in the culture now that all men have every advantage in life and basically, Fuck Men. How ironic, coming from rich white young women who always claim to be the queens of virtue and empathy. Which brings me to the other good point made about class. Rich white women control a LOT, especially in the arts, academia, etc. The point is well-taken about these women being at the top and working-class men of all races being far below. This reminds of the racial controversies in the public discourse now as well, the idea that all (white) men have it easy somehow. It’s beyond ridiculous. The ‘hypergamie’ thing is interesting. I experienced this when I lived in Manhattan: I noticed women seemed to be very money-driven when it came to choosing men. There was a physical angle too: Women generally wanted tall men over 6’0, with a full head of hair and a good job making a lot of money. Any men outside of that circle had a tougher time. Luckily NYC is very diverse so you could still meet people but the overall trend was pretty clear.
Do 3rd and 4th wave feminists truly want to live without men? I’m in a relationship now but when I was still doing online dating it seemed very odd and confusing: Women often seemed to borderline hate men but simultaneously were desperately seeking good men. Do these women not see that their own attitudes push men away?
One last thing. This discussion made me wonder something I’ve wanted more info on: Do women in contemporary times REALLY make less money for the same work like the media incessantly claims? Or are these overall averages which don’t highlight birthing children, individual ambition and choices, etc etc? I’m genuinely curious.
Takes a lot of courage to have these discussions. Thank you 🙏
Great episode. I'm glad Richard Reeves' book is getting traction. I remember when I read Christine Hoff Summers book in 2020 on the same topic and, while generally agreeing with her, I found some of it oft-putting. (I don't remember what exactly though I know that most of her writing has been a mixed bag for me.) I had read before that in '95, Failing at Fairness, which showed the ways girls weren't given a fair shake and recognized how it was absolutely right for when I went to high school and college (68-76) before second-wave feminism "won" but was quickly becoming outdated, as the script flipped.
I think a national service component before going to college or the work world could both help in our current cultural divide as well as helping men catch-up to women before hitting college. Having worked closely with young men in college for 17 years, I can say unequivocally that most guys should not be there so young. Particularly given the high costs of college. They flail for 2-3 years before, finally, catching up and developing the habits and drive most girls enter college with. A year of national service or - better yet - two would erase that maturity gap while helping young men with both practical and social skills.
Mormons do their 2-year proselytizing mission at 19 for guys (and girls can do it too) and, of all the Mormons I know, it did wonders for the young men in terms of maturity. (While, obviously, they are trying to convert folks - I think the other major reason they do it is to actually address the male maturity issue so they are more ready for their assumed role as husband and father.)
I think a national service could be similar without the religious motivation.
Great discussion but I have to say that it’s pretty funny to hear all the throat clearing about mens rights just as you start a discussion about stuff mras have been talking about for years. That is an area where I don’t really think this podcast is particularly heterodox.
You were right. You did push further in this one. I've been listening to all of his podcast appearances and this one has been my favorite.
Women may be doing better, but are kids better off? Women may no longer need men to provide for them, but what about the value of fathers and two parent families? Many younger people are in crisis, and society isn't exactly running fantastically on all cylinders right now. We need to value the better qualities of both men and women. Men can and should contribute more than just $ earnings to the equation.
Great discussion! A few months ago (before this book came out) I lobbied for a book group to read “The War Against Men” (?) by Christina Hoff Sommers. The group just hated it because it didn’t toe the line of patriarchy, privilege, power. Folks just argued against it for the whole time. This book sounds better and I wish it well! We need this discussion.
Wow. How refreshing to hear this! I feel ‘heard’ lol. No but really. The bit about women needing to have more compassion and empathy is so true. I’ve felt this for many years now. There’s a general sense in the culture now that all men have every advantage in life and basically, Fuck Men. How ironic, coming from rich white young women who always claim to be the queens of virtue and empathy. Which brings me to the other good point made about class. Rich white women control a LOT, especially in the arts, academia, etc. The point is well-taken about these women being at the top and working-class men of all races being far below. This reminds of the racial controversies in the public discourse now as well, the idea that all (white) men have it easy somehow. It’s beyond ridiculous. The ‘hypergamie’ thing is interesting. I experienced this when I lived in Manhattan: I noticed women seemed to be very money-driven when it came to choosing men. There was a physical angle too: Women generally wanted tall men over 6’0, with a full head of hair and a good job making a lot of money. Any men outside of that circle had a tougher time. Luckily NYC is very diverse so you could still meet people but the overall trend was pretty clear.
Do 3rd and 4th wave feminists truly want to live without men? I’m in a relationship now but when I was still doing online dating it seemed very odd and confusing: Women often seemed to borderline hate men but simultaneously were desperately seeking good men. Do these women not see that their own attitudes push men away?
One last thing. This discussion made me wonder something I’ve wanted more info on: Do women in contemporary times REALLY make less money for the same work like the media incessantly claims? Or are these overall averages which don’t highlight birthing children, individual ambition and choices, etc etc? I’m genuinely curious.
Takes a lot of courage to have these discussions. Thank you 🙏
Michael
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/
Great episode. I'm glad Richard Reeves' book is getting traction. I remember when I read Christine Hoff Summers book in 2020 on the same topic and, while generally agreeing with her, I found some of it oft-putting. (I don't remember what exactly though I know that most of her writing has been a mixed bag for me.) I had read before that in '95, Failing at Fairness, which showed the ways girls weren't given a fair shake and recognized how it was absolutely right for when I went to high school and college (68-76) before second-wave feminism "won" but was quickly becoming outdated, as the script flipped.
I think a national service component before going to college or the work world could both help in our current cultural divide as well as helping men catch-up to women before hitting college. Having worked closely with young men in college for 17 years, I can say unequivocally that most guys should not be there so young. Particularly given the high costs of college. They flail for 2-3 years before, finally, catching up and developing the habits and drive most girls enter college with. A year of national service or - better yet - two would erase that maturity gap while helping young men with both practical and social skills.
Mormons do their 2-year proselytizing mission at 19 for guys (and girls can do it too) and, of all the Mormons I know, it did wonders for the young men in terms of maturity. (While, obviously, they are trying to convert folks - I think the other major reason they do it is to actually address the male maturity issue so they are more ready for their assumed role as husband and father.)
I think a national service could be similar without the religious motivation.
I’ve listened to a few podcast interviews with Richard and this was by far my favorite.
Great discussion but I have to say that it’s pretty funny to hear all the throat clearing about mens rights just as you start a discussion about stuff mras have been talking about for years. That is an area where I don’t really think this podcast is particularly heterodox.