Thank you so much for this episode! I live in Washington, DC and feel like I'm surrounded by women overly focused on eating and exercise. Girls nights out are no longer about living it up and enjoying food and drink. Once we hit 50, it seemed to be more about discussing your favorite peloton class while ordering nothing but a salad with dressing on the side. What I would do for a group of female friends who eat bread! I truly try to do everything in moderation, yet in my world I feel like I'm the abnormal one. This episode helped remind me that moderation should be the norm. Thank you!
I would love to hear a whole episode on women’s strange eating rules. I’ve basically never known a woman whose relationship to food wasn’t messed up in some way, or who wasn’t operating on a personal rule system that would read like an OCD symptom in any other context.
I wonder sometimes whether if this were more often put out in the open, would some of the shame and fear that drives it disappear? Could women more easily feel like terror of food was a horrible mindset imposed upon them by a culture of commodified health and beauty, rather than feeling like enjoyment of food is a personal failing?
Just beginning to listen but the introduction reminded me of a boutique wellness I passed yesterday in a DC suburban shopping center. It was called (or self described as by the store -wasn’t entirely sure) Hyper Wellness. It made me pause. Those two words seem contrary to me. In my mind, Hyper just doesn’t strike me as a word denoting being well, or healthy. It reminds me of those t-shirts that say Namaste, Bitch or Namaste AF. Like we want to be healthy in a badass way.
OMG Right?!?!?! Please make this fierce female shit go away!!! I did nearly choke myself reading Namaste AF, picturing Pema Chodron doing deep breathing seeing that sweatshirt.
I am listening while at my kids soccer game and then take my daughter to a gymnastics meet. I feel guilty about not getting self-care because I don’t have time for self-care. Those who say - let the housework go- obviously don’t have to come back later and do it themselves. And all these specialized fitness programs cost a lot of money. Needless to say - self- care stresses me out!
Wow did I love this episode, and have so much to say about it.
I was an early childhood educator in a very affluent school in NYC. It would break my heart when I heard a kindergarten girl say, "Mommy says I can't eat carbs after 1:00" or "Mommy says I can't eat bread." I could have a Ted Talk about what I heard in the dramatic play area, but that's a whole other story.
It breaks my heart that after all these decades of knowledge and experience, women continue to (have the tendency to) spiral out as far as food and wellness is concerned. The rice cakes and aerobics of the 80s became cigarettes and coffee of the 90s and now we are steaming our vaginas and vegetables hoping to be as clean as possible.
After a cancer diagnosis years ago (I'm fine now, thankfully) I went through a period of cutting out entire food groups: dairy, flour, sugar, alcohol, coffee, rice... It got to a point where I hit bottom, realizing, holy shit, all I feel "safe" eating (OMG did I just type that?) is baked fish and steamed vegetables. Then I heard the term orthorexia and was mortified.
At this point, I am doing the best I can each day, knowing that there is no such thing as perfection, and that life is too damn short to be obsessing. I'm gonna eat 2 slices of pizza...pepperoni! I'm also going to make sure I have fruits and vegetables. I am mindful that I don't buy a pint of ice cream when I am sad and lonely, because I know chances are that it will last 5 minutes after I get it home. I make it a point to be grateful without writing in a gratitude journal, only because it keeps me sane.
I mainly wanted to say I wish Robin H. and Angela A and everyone else lived in NYC so we could all go grab a drink and talk about music (and our favorite podcasters!)
Glad you liked this one! And don't lose hope in in-person get togethers. Once I get The Unspeakeasy rolling, we're gonna have local (underground) meetups.
I volunteer to facilitate/organize any and all IRL gatherings. Within the past 10 days one dear friend unironically used the word “folx” in an instagram story. Another tagged and praised the graphic novel Gender Queer to the heavens on the platform. Note: I am not a sophomore at Hampshire College, but a Gen-Xer just trying to get through the day.
Very interesting dialogue. I listened while walking a 125-pound English Mastiff with a 22-pound Frenchie. (I write but dog-walk on the side.) Rina had a lot of potent, relevant things to say. I've never been whole-hog into the "wellness" world. Too much of a free-thinker and DIY kinda person. Plus I'm a man and as you two discussed the culture puts less pressure on men versus women. Women have to juggle a LOT all at once. Sounds exhausting :) I agree with the general premise that the holistic/wellness industries drum up a lot of (often sketchy) doubt about traditional western medicine and eating habits etc. The extremism of the alternative movements in wellness make me think of the same concepts occuring in art, literature, politics, etc in the USA right now, a la Wokeism. Both are steeped in this OCD-like, repressive obsession for "purity" or "perfection" which of course is never attainable because we're all flawed, complex, weak human beings. I like that Gen Z seems to see things differently. Maybe they'll tear down the wellness absurdity and then push back against far-left Wokeism, too. That's one good thing about all of this: Every generation does things differently than the one which came before. Will it be (ironically) Gen Z who save us from ourselves, from the bad ideas of confused Millennials? Possibly! I am in pretty respectable physical shape and I run and hike a lot. I do feel "some" pressure among my peers to look decently fit, etc. But I know many people like Rina describes, absolutely obsessed with being thin, toned, in perfect shape. These people often have hardcore workout routines. Their daily lives essentially are planned around said routines. Personally, I think that's going too far. It's a quality of life thing. Also, where is the line between wanting to be healthy and fit versus worrying to a deranged degree about how others might perceive you? One last thought here, about "conspiracy theories" if you'd like to it that, or "alternative facts" perhaps. The media on the left seems to perpetually paint conspiracy theories and alt-facts as a right-wing phenomenon. (And hey: It's often true!) But the wellness absurdism, as well as Wokeism and the idea that men can become pregant, is anti-science, anti-intellectual, and clearly wrong. So should these left-wing concepts be equally scorned? I'm not suggesting they're the same thing as, say, Alex Jones, who is clearly a nutcase. I'm just saying: Shouldn't we call bullshit no matter what side it comes from?
Thank you so much for this episode! I live in Washington, DC and feel like I'm surrounded by women overly focused on eating and exercise. Girls nights out are no longer about living it up and enjoying food and drink. Once we hit 50, it seemed to be more about discussing your favorite peloton class while ordering nothing but a salad with dressing on the side. What I would do for a group of female friends who eat bread! I truly try to do everything in moderation, yet in my world I feel like I'm the abnormal one. This episode helped remind me that moderation should be the norm. Thank you!
I would love to hear a whole episode on women’s strange eating rules. I’ve basically never known a woman whose relationship to food wasn’t messed up in some way, or who wasn’t operating on a personal rule system that would read like an OCD symptom in any other context.
I wonder sometimes whether if this were more often put out in the open, would some of the shame and fear that drives it disappear? Could women more easily feel like terror of food was a horrible mindset imposed upon them by a culture of commodified health and beauty, rather than feeling like enjoyment of food is a personal failing?
Just beginning to listen but the introduction reminded me of a boutique wellness I passed yesterday in a DC suburban shopping center. It was called (or self described as by the store -wasn’t entirely sure) Hyper Wellness. It made me pause. Those two words seem contrary to me. In my mind, Hyper just doesn’t strike me as a word denoting being well, or healthy. It reminds me of those t-shirts that say Namaste, Bitch or Namaste AF. Like we want to be healthy in a badass way.
OMG Right?!?!?! Please make this fierce female shit go away!!! I did nearly choke myself reading Namaste AF, picturing Pema Chodron doing deep breathing seeing that sweatshirt.
I am listening while at my kids soccer game and then take my daughter to a gymnastics meet. I feel guilty about not getting self-care because I don’t have time for self-care. Those who say - let the housework go- obviously don’t have to come back later and do it themselves. And all these specialized fitness programs cost a lot of money. Needless to say - self- care stresses me out!
Wow did I love this episode, and have so much to say about it.
I was an early childhood educator in a very affluent school in NYC. It would break my heart when I heard a kindergarten girl say, "Mommy says I can't eat carbs after 1:00" or "Mommy says I can't eat bread." I could have a Ted Talk about what I heard in the dramatic play area, but that's a whole other story.
It breaks my heart that after all these decades of knowledge and experience, women continue to (have the tendency to) spiral out as far as food and wellness is concerned. The rice cakes and aerobics of the 80s became cigarettes and coffee of the 90s and now we are steaming our vaginas and vegetables hoping to be as clean as possible.
After a cancer diagnosis years ago (I'm fine now, thankfully) I went through a period of cutting out entire food groups: dairy, flour, sugar, alcohol, coffee, rice... It got to a point where I hit bottom, realizing, holy shit, all I feel "safe" eating (OMG did I just type that?) is baked fish and steamed vegetables. Then I heard the term orthorexia and was mortified.
At this point, I am doing the best I can each day, knowing that there is no such thing as perfection, and that life is too damn short to be obsessing. I'm gonna eat 2 slices of pizza...pepperoni! I'm also going to make sure I have fruits and vegetables. I am mindful that I don't buy a pint of ice cream when I am sad and lonely, because I know chances are that it will last 5 minutes after I get it home. I make it a point to be grateful without writing in a gratitude journal, only because it keeps me sane.
I mainly wanted to say I wish Robin H. and Angela A and everyone else lived in NYC so we could all go grab a drink and talk about music (and our favorite podcasters!)
Thank you, Meghan!
Glad you liked this one! And don't lose hope in in-person get togethers. Once I get The Unspeakeasy rolling, we're gonna have local (underground) meetups.
I volunteer to facilitate/organize any and all IRL gatherings. Within the past 10 days one dear friend unironically used the word “folx” in an instagram story. Another tagged and praised the graphic novel Gender Queer to the heavens on the platform. Note: I am not a sophomore at Hampshire College, but a Gen-Xer just trying to get through the day.
Also, I will probably share this on my FB. So relevant to my friend group.
Very interesting dialogue. I listened while walking a 125-pound English Mastiff with a 22-pound Frenchie. (I write but dog-walk on the side.) Rina had a lot of potent, relevant things to say. I've never been whole-hog into the "wellness" world. Too much of a free-thinker and DIY kinda person. Plus I'm a man and as you two discussed the culture puts less pressure on men versus women. Women have to juggle a LOT all at once. Sounds exhausting :) I agree with the general premise that the holistic/wellness industries drum up a lot of (often sketchy) doubt about traditional western medicine and eating habits etc. The extremism of the alternative movements in wellness make me think of the same concepts occuring in art, literature, politics, etc in the USA right now, a la Wokeism. Both are steeped in this OCD-like, repressive obsession for "purity" or "perfection" which of course is never attainable because we're all flawed, complex, weak human beings. I like that Gen Z seems to see things differently. Maybe they'll tear down the wellness absurdity and then push back against far-left Wokeism, too. That's one good thing about all of this: Every generation does things differently than the one which came before. Will it be (ironically) Gen Z who save us from ourselves, from the bad ideas of confused Millennials? Possibly! I am in pretty respectable physical shape and I run and hike a lot. I do feel "some" pressure among my peers to look decently fit, etc. But I know many people like Rina describes, absolutely obsessed with being thin, toned, in perfect shape. These people often have hardcore workout routines. Their daily lives essentially are planned around said routines. Personally, I think that's going too far. It's a quality of life thing. Also, where is the line between wanting to be healthy and fit versus worrying to a deranged degree about how others might perceive you? One last thought here, about "conspiracy theories" if you'd like to it that, or "alternative facts" perhaps. The media on the left seems to perpetually paint conspiracy theories and alt-facts as a right-wing phenomenon. (And hey: It's often true!) But the wellness absurdism, as well as Wokeism and the idea that men can become pregant, is anti-science, anti-intellectual, and clearly wrong. So should these left-wing concepts be equally scorned? I'm not suggesting they're the same thing as, say, Alex Jones, who is clearly a nutcase. I'm just saying: Shouldn't we call bullshit no matter what side it comes from?
Michael Mohr, "Sincere American Writing."
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/