I've always believed that most people are not equipped to have children, including myself. I chose to have two kids. The first was planned but mostly pure biological drive, and the second was for the first to have an ally. Regret is not a word I would use in my decision to have kids. I wouldn't take it back, but I've always recognized that I could be equally content (or miserable) with or without kids. The only do-over I would want is to start at babyhood and be better the second time around.
I think of the Central Sadness as the human way, and family life is more of the same. My biggest wish is that I wouldn't fuck them up and I'm not sure that's the best mission or goal. Fraught is definitely the word.
Meghan -- I'm so glad to have discovered your writing and your voice this year, with some regrets that I'd not discovered you earlier. The initial pointer came via the "Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em" podcast, which referenced an interview you had done with Sarah Hepola. From there I've visited "The Unspeakable", that "special place in hell", and read some of your earlier writings, in particular on childlessness and your real estate obsession. I've also been working through your earlier podcasts, including the one from 2011 that you just tweeted about. Being happily childless myself and also a bit confused about real estate, your recent essays about those and family holiday gatherings have spoken to me at a deep level. You've made me smile and think multiple times this past year and I look forward to supporting your work in 2023. Happy New Year!
Happy Holidays - with whomever you choose to spend them. Wishing you all the best.
I finally got around to listening to the full podcast: a great discussion in which you deftly injected some nuance. It was my interpretation that Warrington was attempting to create a strict dichotomy between people who love having children versus people who abhor the thought of ever having them. There truly is a spectrum, as there are a multitude of reasons people choose to be childless (or as briefly mentioned, there are some who really want children but can't have them for medical reasons.)
I apologize if we trod this ground when your holidays essay was first published: I grapple with the suggestion that there may be an automatic connection between being childless and being disconnected from larger family. We've all heard someone say "I don't (and never will) have children, but I dote on my nieces and nephews (or the children of my friends)."
And there are childless people who have strong connections to parents, siblings, aunts, uncles etc.
I don't believe you were making a blanket assertion: "childless automatically equals disconnection from family" but maybe there was some conflation in my mind. I would happily stand corrected.
Two other brief observations:
1. Have you ever watched "Modern Family"? Some of the brief comments you've made about your relationship with your mother strongly remind me of the fraught relationship between age 50ish daughter Julie Bowen and mother Shelley Long.
2. You mentioned knowing "a lot of single mothers". I'm curious about that comment because it seems that rates of divorce among "married with children" are relatively low in your demographic (white, 50ish Vassar graduate in the professional/managerial class). And unwed motherhood is nearly unheard of among this group.
Will reflect more on this, but briefly . . . I hope I didn't say anything to suggest that disconnect from family necessarily equals a desire to remain childless. On the contrary, I think I made a point of saying that, just as often, being disconnected from family inspires people to have children and make their own families as a kind of corrective (and I think this is a perfectly healthy response). As for single motherhood, I do know a fair number of divorcees who have split custody and it's working out well. But I also have a few friends who very deliberately made the choice to have or adopt children on their own as single mothers. In fact, when I was at Vassar, that was something that a lot of us imagined ourselves doing! Most didn't, but it was very much on the menu of imagined life options.
Thanks so much for clarifying. As the cliche goes:. It's not you, it's me. I come from a very large extended family (maternal grandfather is one of 11; mom is one of 6). The family is pretty close, as modern families go, with 30-40 people gathering a couple times a year. A childless uncle goes out of his way to dote on his nieces and nephews. So my perspective on such matters is admittedly skewed.
I honestly only know one or two people from college, law school or work who chose single motherhood via adoption. The fact that I know very few "creatives" may be a factor?
Looking forward to more writing and podcasts in 2023
Loved this discussion and could relate to many parts of it. While I agree that those of us who choose not to have children are statistical outliers, I think in many regards I'm not that different than many women who do end up having kids in terms of what I want and how I feel about the prospect of raising children. Like most women I wanted to see what I would produce with the partner I loved and didn't want to miss out on the experience that everyone said was so wonderful, but that wasn't enough to override my need for creative solitude and freedom from the tedium and daily grind aspect that I was also hearing about from parents (plus other reasons connected to dysfunctional childhood and issues in my relationship I didn't want to bring a child into). There is a significant middle ground on the spectrum of feelings toward motherhood and we are driven in one direction or the other by circumstance, to a large degree.
The issue of what to do when I'm an aging childless (and probably single) person is one I struggle with too. I'm not surprised that most elders don't want to live with other people. When you look at the stats on how many people live alone and the reported rates of loneliness, it's clear that there is something about having one's own space that prevents people from living with friends or finding roommates because it wouldn't be that hard to do if it was worth the hassles. So far my plan is to make a better social network that includes younger people and others with similar concerns.
This was a great conversation.
I've always believed that most people are not equipped to have children, including myself. I chose to have two kids. The first was planned but mostly pure biological drive, and the second was for the first to have an ally. Regret is not a word I would use in my decision to have kids. I wouldn't take it back, but I've always recognized that I could be equally content (or miserable) with or without kids. The only do-over I would want is to start at babyhood and be better the second time around.
I think of the Central Sadness as the human way, and family life is more of the same. My biggest wish is that I wouldn't fuck them up and I'm not sure that's the best mission or goal. Fraught is definitely the word.
Meghan -- I'm so glad to have discovered your writing and your voice this year, with some regrets that I'd not discovered you earlier. The initial pointer came via the "Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em" podcast, which referenced an interview you had done with Sarah Hepola. From there I've visited "The Unspeakable", that "special place in hell", and read some of your earlier writings, in particular on childlessness and your real estate obsession. I've also been working through your earlier podcasts, including the one from 2011 that you just tweeted about. Being happily childless myself and also a bit confused about real estate, your recent essays about those and family holiday gatherings have spoken to me at a deep level. You've made me smile and think multiple times this past year and I look forward to supporting your work in 2023. Happy New Year!
Dearest Meghan,
Happy Holidays - with whomever you choose to spend them. Wishing you all the best.
I finally got around to listening to the full podcast: a great discussion in which you deftly injected some nuance. It was my interpretation that Warrington was attempting to create a strict dichotomy between people who love having children versus people who abhor the thought of ever having them. There truly is a spectrum, as there are a multitude of reasons people choose to be childless (or as briefly mentioned, there are some who really want children but can't have them for medical reasons.)
I apologize if we trod this ground when your holidays essay was first published: I grapple with the suggestion that there may be an automatic connection between being childless and being disconnected from larger family. We've all heard someone say "I don't (and never will) have children, but I dote on my nieces and nephews (or the children of my friends)."
And there are childless people who have strong connections to parents, siblings, aunts, uncles etc.
I don't believe you were making a blanket assertion: "childless automatically equals disconnection from family" but maybe there was some conflation in my mind. I would happily stand corrected.
Two other brief observations:
1. Have you ever watched "Modern Family"? Some of the brief comments you've made about your relationship with your mother strongly remind me of the fraught relationship between age 50ish daughter Julie Bowen and mother Shelley Long.
2. You mentioned knowing "a lot of single mothers". I'm curious about that comment because it seems that rates of divorce among "married with children" are relatively low in your demographic (white, 50ish Vassar graduate in the professional/managerial class). And unwed motherhood is nearly unheard of among this group.
Will reflect more on this, but briefly . . . I hope I didn't say anything to suggest that disconnect from family necessarily equals a desire to remain childless. On the contrary, I think I made a point of saying that, just as often, being disconnected from family inspires people to have children and make their own families as a kind of corrective (and I think this is a perfectly healthy response). As for single motherhood, I do know a fair number of divorcees who have split custody and it's working out well. But I also have a few friends who very deliberately made the choice to have or adopt children on their own as single mothers. In fact, when I was at Vassar, that was something that a lot of us imagined ourselves doing! Most didn't, but it was very much on the menu of imagined life options.
Thanks so much for clarifying. As the cliche goes:. It's not you, it's me. I come from a very large extended family (maternal grandfather is one of 11; mom is one of 6). The family is pretty close, as modern families go, with 30-40 people gathering a couple times a year. A childless uncle goes out of his way to dote on his nieces and nephews. So my perspective on such matters is admittedly skewed.
I honestly only know one or two people from college, law school or work who chose single motherhood via adoption. The fact that I know very few "creatives" may be a factor?
Looking forward to more writing and podcasts in 2023
Loved this discussion and could relate to many parts of it. While I agree that those of us who choose not to have children are statistical outliers, I think in many regards I'm not that different than many women who do end up having kids in terms of what I want and how I feel about the prospect of raising children. Like most women I wanted to see what I would produce with the partner I loved and didn't want to miss out on the experience that everyone said was so wonderful, but that wasn't enough to override my need for creative solitude and freedom from the tedium and daily grind aspect that I was also hearing about from parents (plus other reasons connected to dysfunctional childhood and issues in my relationship I didn't want to bring a child into). There is a significant middle ground on the spectrum of feelings toward motherhood and we are driven in one direction or the other by circumstance, to a large degree.
The issue of what to do when I'm an aging childless (and probably single) person is one I struggle with too. I'm not surprised that most elders don't want to live with other people. When you look at the stats on how many people live alone and the reported rates of loneliness, it's clear that there is something about having one's own space that prevents people from living with friends or finding roommates because it wouldn't be that hard to do if it was worth the hassles. So far my plan is to make a better social network that includes younger people and others with similar concerns.